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Flag Drama II: Electric Boogaloo (aka Yo, Stewart?)

Flag Drama II: Electric Boogaloo (aka Yo, Stewart?)

Postby DirtyMartini on 04 Mar 2008 08:29

Stewart, I need to ask you the favor of listening to me blather on for a moment or twelve. I know you won't respond; I know you can't respond. Truth be told, this is probably a blessing for me. I just ask that you lend me an ear. And forgive that this message won’t be quite as witty, well-crafted, or well-edited as is usual – but even though it is really late here, I need to do this now.

I promise not to invoke Norma Rae.

[Caveat lector: Still not speaking for Giovanni, Eugenio, Stewart, SC.net, you, your mother, your dog, or anyone else that isn't me right at this moment. My spew is my own.]

Stewart, you and I (understandably) don't know each other very well. The most I can guess that you know about me is that I have a facility for logistics, expletives, and St. Crispin's Day-type speechifying. (And that I may or may not be Dive. Or Meg.) You and I, we have a pretty bizarre little symbiotic unrelationship going here: I get to yell flag insanities and tell you what to do, and 9 times out of 10, you do it. Which is, admittedly, kinda cool.

But as a result I also get to worry more and over-think more and over-analyze more -- and yeah, okay, over-talk more -- on certain topics than the average nutter. Which is why my big yap is flapping right now long after the relevant conversation of the crew has ceased. Because there's a dropped thread here that's bugging me, and I feel I would be remiss to allow it to be overlooked:

Throughout 11 pages of our previous conversation, many folks have reiterated the hope that, even though the kibosh has been put on the TP.com flag-specific photo request dealio, that the attendant flag interview/flag footage/flag-related whatever -- i.e., the flag -- not be excised completely from the official Police DVD (whether it be the official official or the fan club official -- whatever is relevant).

But if the one situation affects the other and your stated nukability applies not merely to the photo request but to *all* flag references, as some have interpreted, then I'm out here asking you (and/or whomever is appropriate) to please reconsider.

We come to this table from very different directions: you actually know what the hell is going on from inside the TP machine; all most of us know is what is presented to us via TP.com (with occasional dribs and drabs that leak out from behind the curtain). And to many of us on the outside -- as has been voiced -- this TP.com flag photo request smelled kinda crap. None of us knew who was making the requests; none of us knew what the actual purpose or motivations might be; none of us knew who was or wasn’t privy to or responsible for what. We don't even know if the flag photo request was or wasn't related (or even synonymous with) Jordan's documentary work. All we got was the (nameless, faceless) TP.com/UltraStar entity posting a request with tossed-off language that suggested the flag's inclusion/association as a fait accompli.

So I hope that you can understand why -- whether justified or not -- many folks felt their territorial/loyalty feathers get ruffled. To many – myself included -- it looked an awful lot like TP.com trying to steal SC.net's thunder and profit off something that is supposed to be (at least before controversy/ies struck) pure. As I said in the big thread, "Apologies to any drummers or drummers' progeny or long-time fans working for Management that may have been involved, but imho -- whether intended or not -- the presentation [of the flag photo request] came off as appropriation and commodification." Many probably still feel this way. I admit that part of me still does.

But if this received or assumed image is incorrect, then our reactions have been incorrect. While admittedly I won't be rushing to let TP.com off the hook for the way the info was rolled out, I will indeed put some of us on the hook as well if our visceral reactions resulted in a misreading of the situation.

As I said in that other thread, you're not exactly one to appease us haphazardly. We wank at length on a variety of topics that you don’t touch; so I feel at least somewhat confident that if you felt it appropriate to intervene in this matter, you had your reasons.

But I also don't want to find out too late that the hammer has unnecessarily fallen – or unnecessarily fallen too wide -- on something potentially cool. I don’t want our over-the-top, bugfuck flag love and staunch allegiance to inadvertently generate flag casualties. Road to hell/good intentions/etc.

So I'm out here flapping my gums at you, Stewart, in the hope that, if the conclusions reached by the in-the-dark team were just way the fuck off the mark, someone on the fully-informed team will set things right.

TP.com’s photo request in general (flag or otherwise) -- the profits issue, the intellectual property issue/absence of a limited terms agreement (the absence of which affects people's ability to submit photos to both TP.com's DVD and SC.net's book) -- is still, to me personally, problematic; on those points, my previous bite-me position still stands. (Sorry, Stewart -- that one's not gift-related. On that one, I cannot defer.)

But that is not to say that I (and others) think that all images or discussion of the flag should be stricken from the official record. And hell, nothing is stopping anyone who wants to from submitting flag-related photos. That is their right and their business, and I don't have to agree; that decision is theirs.

This flag thing has become strangely important to a lot of people around the world. It's important to your fans. It's important to Team Italia. It's important to me. And I feel pretty confident in deducing that it's important to you as well. I meant it when I described this whole flag thing as a gift from you to us as well as from us to you. (Despite my knack for imperiousness, I really am quite sincere.)

And after all that you’ve done this past year, you're the one who should be the DVD star. Plus, you deserve to have proper visual aids when you bore your grandkids with stories of krypton glory days gone by. You deserve to be able to point to a DVD or a pdf tour book (don't get me started) and (with a smile on your lips and a twinkle in your eye) flip through the pages pointing and yelling "mine, mine, all mine." You deserve to have something official documenting how you and that grody green thing wrote a truly unique story and kinda affected the course of Police and fan history.

So if there's something here that needs to be fixed or something here that can be fixed, I have no power to fix it. All I've got is a megaphone called the internet, the infinite ability to talk, and the willingness to embarrass myself for a good cause. Smite me, scold me, tie me to the whipping post, do what you need to do; but don’t let your flag go undocumented by The Police. Whether through photos or interviews or pencil sketches or interpretive dance, the world deserves to know just how truly unusual, incredible, and touched in the head you are for having initiated this little flag game.

I know that I could be saying all this for naught; it's possible that all non-flag-photo-submission plans are preceding at pace. I don't know. What I do know is that I would rather issue a potentially unmotivated mea culpa *just in case* than spend the rest of the tour what-if'ing. I would much rather eat crow than know that this situation went down wrong.

(I know it's not as sexy as righteous indignation, but it does make sleeping easier.)

Thank you, Copelandia.

Thank you, Stewart.

I promise to stop talking now.

Your humbly verbose and/or verbosely humble flagmistress,
DM / Kellie


This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he today that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now abed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.
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Postby TheEqualizer on 04 Mar 2008 08:51

How can you type complete sentences at 4 am? I can barely read complete sentences at this hour.
(will reread your post tomorrow at a decent hour; my wrists hurt just glancing at this post)
Last edited by TheEqualizer on 04 Mar 2008 09:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby TheEqualizer on 04 Mar 2008 08:57

STEWART, please keep The Flag in the fan club DVD to some extent.
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Postby smax on 04 Mar 2008 10:51

uh-huh.

(well played DM for quoting shakey's 'henry V' in a flag rant, stewart; just well played)
<---A photo of me with Stewart pointing at a photo of Stewart pointing at me.
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Postby Mary on 04 Mar 2008 11:33

Listen to this SOS Stewart!!!!

[quote]Smite me, scold me, tie me to the whipping post, do what you need to do; but don’t let your flag go undocumented by The Police. Whether through photos or interviews or pencil sketches or interpretive dance, the world deserves to know just how truly unusual, incredible, and touched in the head you are for having initiated this little flag game.
[/quote] :wink:

THIS FLAG IS LIKE A MESSAGE IN THE BOTTLE! Only hope can keep us together...
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Postby sandy on 04 Mar 2008 11:57

DM, you sure have a way with words! very well said. :D
'dude, crack a smile!'-Stewart

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Postby Madgrad on 04 Mar 2008 12:16

8)
∑∑∑
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Postby IndyGirl on 04 Mar 2008 12:38

Nicely worded, DM.
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Postby policerule on 04 Mar 2008 13:23

hope you got some sleep kel!!! :shock:


thank you...

i love this place.
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Postby sockii on 04 Mar 2008 13:50

What DM said.

Also what Dive said earlier, which was so good it needs to be direct-linked so as not to be lost in the continuing chaos:

http://www.stewartcopeland.net/forum/vi ... c&start=96

Stewart, if you're not rolling your eyes over all of this by now...

I think a lot of us, while enjoying the fuck (thanks Phaty) out of the tour and seeing you and the guys kicking ass (and eating children) for the past year, have just been feeling often frustrated and yeah, at times taken advantage of. NOT BY THE BAND, let me make that clear, but by some of the corporate shenanigans surrounding it--be they necessary in this day and age or not.

We enjoyed the hell out of meeting tons of new people and making new friends at concerts, many of those new connections thanks to the fanclub site, as well as here and elsewhere. Yet, for those of us used to & loving the environment and open, free, fun style of sc.net cultivated by Team Italia (and you), the corporate air of the fanclub has been off-putting. We grew frustrated when information had to be extracted with petitions to leave and spamming the boards repeatedly for answers. When answers relevant directly to thepolice.com members were posted at sting.com instead--that just gave some of us the vibe that thepolice.com was really Not Meant For Us Nutters, and so the desire to participate and contribute to the community there, and their projects, has waned.

It's the lack of information and communication that got a lot of feathers ruffled. It was the impression--thanks to that lack of communication--that they seemed to be appropriating the flag for a project that many of us who did not pony up to rejoin the corporate club, yet waved that damn flag around the world with joy, would not have a chance to (legally) obtain a copy of thanks to it being restricted to "Legacy" members only. That bugged and burned, no doubt about it, and some might call it sour grapes, but heck...if we'd known what we might get if we stuck around the club before it was too late, maybe some of us would have. I don't know.

But at the same time, hell, it sucks if the whole thing will be wiped from this one document of tour history (even though it is only one document; I have no doubt there will be others--it's all over the freakin' internet already.) If that's the way it has to be, then I hope it doesn't seem like we're a bunch of kids pouting and taking our toys home. But in the end, it's In sc.net That I Trust, and I'm sure everything will be made right in the end.

And now I'm rambling. So I should shut up now. No one wants to spoil the party or in anyway dampen the Flag- (and fandom- and Stewart-) love over this, really (at least I don't, and I don't think we'd all be in such a verbose frenzy if that were the case.)
Last edited by sockii on 04 Mar 2008 14:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bella on 04 Mar 2008 14:27

I don't know if this has already been said.

I really would love to see all the flag pics in the freaking dvd. I think it's a wonderful thing that should be celebrated and seen by as many people as possible.

I see no problem with fanclub members sending in their photos, since they paid for the "so-called" perks anyway. But to put that message out to the entire world and expect those of us NOT in the fanclub to donate our prized photos knowing full well we get NOTHING in return? Oh. hell. no.
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Postby Divemistress of the Dark on 04 Mar 2008 15:47

Yeah. Although, now that the suits have added another show to Jones Beach? Thus completely spoiling what had added up to people flying in here from the UK and Australia for The Last Show, and screwing those of us who already used our presale codes? I'm really not in a good mood about any of this.

Maybe the idea was to spread the joy over two nights, but I'm really sick of feeling like nobody in the corporate universe is connected to or even gives a flip about the concerns of the hardcore fans.
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Postby policerule on 04 Mar 2008 15:54

[quote="Divemistress of the Dark"]Yeah. Although, now that the suits have added another show to Jones Beach? Thus completely spoiling what had added up to people flying in here from the UK and Australia for The Last Show, and screwing those of us who already used our presale codes? I'm really not in a good mood about any of this.

Maybe the idea was to spread the joy over two nights, but I'm really sick of feeling like nobody in the corporate universe is connected to or even gives a flip about the concerns of the hardcore fans.[/quote]


i somehow doubt that their motive was to spread joy, dive, but i'm cynical by nature... :roll:

only way to stop that from happening is that NO ONE should buy seats to that second show so that they have to cancel it, but that isn't going to happen.
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Postby DirtyMartini on 04 Mar 2008 15:55

[quote="sockii"]No one wants to spoil the party or in anyway dampen the Flag- (and fandom- and Stewart-) love over this, really (at least I don't, and I don't think we'd all be in such a verbose frenzy if that were the case.)[/quote]

Well, I might be. But that's my charm. Otherwise, what she said.

Thanks for letting me ramble, kids.

(And thanks, D.)
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Postby Divemistress of the Dark on 04 Mar 2008 15:59

Maybe the idea is to spread joy over two nights, but they sure as hell should have let people know about this before they burned their presale codes.

Oh yeah, I know. We can all pony up another $100 for another fan club code. But who knows if Jones 2 really IS the second show? And it's in the NY Metro, which means tix are going to go for 2 and 3x face, if you can't get anything from the fan club.

Bah. I'm really in a bad mood over this. Think I'm going to take a break or I'm just going to be venting all over the place in here all day about it. :evil:
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